Obama's bill

Today is the day that Obama is going to do the voting for his infamous health care bill. If or when he passes it, things are going to get worse here. It's probably going to pass since he now only needs 51% majority vote, I just hope some of them change their minds enough to prevent it from passing. I strongly don't like this bill and have many reasons, for those who are into politics, what do you think?

we have free health care in the UK and theres nothing wrong with it. do not listen to fox news about what they say about the NHS its all propagander.

I love free healthcare

the US needs some more taxes

matrixrory wrote:

we have free health care in the UK and theres nothing wrong with it. do not listen to fox news about what they say about the NHS its all propagander.

You don't understand, the government is taking the money from you based on income, becuase of this you can't pay for your normal insurance companies. This makes the insurance companies bankrupt, losing millions of jobs and making the deficit worse. Also the health care here is not free even with the bill. Plus it is run by the government, it is never a good idea to let them handle such things.

Blixtstorm wrote:

I love free healthcare

the US needs some more taxes

The bill does not make it free. Because of the deficit taxes are not the best thing right now.

put it this way youre going to pay tax either way.

cant the government hire the people in these insurance companys? i mean where are the government going to get all the staff from? cant be many job cuts?

we dont have many health insurance companys in the UK. there is not much you can criticise about the NHS its a good free service.

i dont know how things work in the US but the free health care we are getting over here is good

i support it

You must be a republican...

Honestly I don't care, I'm not really into politics, but I will say this. Republicans are acting like children over this thing. They haven't even seen it. 100% of them just dislike it because it was made by a democrat. These parties act like fanboys. Last time I checked it was about what's best for the people not to boast your political ego's. Fuck the government.

Yea,ezek hates Obama

I honestly dont care about politics,expecially ones from another country than I live in.Canada already has enough idiotic politics to think about

360WNED wrote:

You must be a republican...

Honestly I don't care, I'm not really into politics, but I will say this. Republicans are acting like children over this thing. They haven't even seen it. 100% of them just dislike it because it was made by a democrat. These parties act like fanboys. Last time I checked it was about what's best for the people not to boast your political ego's. Fuck the government.

Yes I am a Rightist

The insurance companies here where we Americans get health care are evil, something Obama used to support his bill in a speech.

Nothing he nor the republicans say can actually be accurate, Obama and the democrats are going to make it seem like the best thing in the world, the Republicans are taking flaws and probably making them seem bigger then they are. Just go with what your personal take on it is.

You appear to generalize about the republican thing, you assume they know nothing about it and they all hate it for one reason, no, it is because they have found a genuine flaw, are there some who hate it because of the author being a democrat? Yes, there probably is, but not all.

Of course both sides are like fanboys Rightists and Leftists go back and forth all the time and I can't recall a time they agreed on something like this. Republicans are not the only ones who have acted childish, Democrats and republicans go back and forth with their childish arguments and actions.

Obama has talked about the bill in speeches, if they didn't read the bill then they got it from him.

Oh and HellJumper, I only don't like his politics, I don't hate him on a personal level.

Ezekiel 703 wrote:

Today is the day that Obama is going to do the voting for his infamous health care bill. If or when he passes it, things are going to get worse here. It's probably going to pass since he now only needs 51% majority vote, I just hope some of them change their minds enough to prevent it from passing. I strongly don't like this bill and have many reasons, for those who are into politics, what do you think?

People said the same thing about medicare and social security. And it turned out they were both good ideas. I think banning insurance companies from denying people with preexisting conditions is the right thing to do. I, for one, support the bill.

Invincible wrote:

Ezekiel 703 wrote:

Today is the day that Obama is going to do the voting for his infamous health care bill. If or when he passes it, things are going to get worse here. It's probably going to pass since he now only needs 51% majority vote, I just hope some of them change their minds enough to prevent it from passing. I strongly don't like this bill and have many reasons, for those who are into politics, what do you think?

People said the same thing about medicare and social security. And it turned out they were both good ideas. I think banning insurance companies from denying people with preexisting conditions is the right thing to do. I, for one, support the bill.

My view is weird, I don't like what is going on now, the insurance companies are evil, but I do not think the bill is the answer.

If the Republicans knew a better way to go about reforming health care, they should of done it when they were in power. At least Obama has the stones to make a step in the right direction. He's doing what he thinks is right regardless if it's bad for his political future.. I respect him for that.

Sadly, whatever Obama tries to do, it wont help. Nixon and Co designed the healthcare system this way, to make money. It wont change because thats where a lot of our money is.

America's heathcare is one of the many reasons why one of my main goals in life is to MOVE OUT OF THE UNITED STATES. Our family didnt always have health insurance, and from those years when we couldnt afford it, I nearly died 3 times because of asthma attacks. It was very severe when I was a kid, but now its a lot better.

It really pisses me off that the inhaler medicine that I get sold is 50 dollars each...but in CUBA THEY ONLY COST 5 AMERICAN CENTS. America doesnt care about its inhabitants. I've felt the bad side to the healthcare system, and I've seen too many people pass away and live miserably WITH and WITHOUT heath insurance.

But I'm glad the bill will at least help people NOT get denied for pre-existing conditions, by their oh so caring Heath Insurance provider.
(We had that Kaiser insurance before, and after nearly dying from their fuckery, I say FUCK THEM. They wouldnt approve me being treated at a different hospital when I had a severe asthma attack, so I had to get driven to THEIR HOSPITAL to receive any kind of treatment.

Fuck America.

I was denied medical coverage when I was just a baby because of a preexisting condition. I went through numerous surgeries on my right eye to remove a cataract (very rare condition for a new born) When my dad got a new job and switched insurance companies, they denied me any further treatment because it was a preexisting condition. So thanks to our fucked up healthcare system, I'm now legally blind in my right eye. That's why this healthcare overall is something I feel very strongly about. It's personal.

Jamin wrote:

Sadly, whatever Obama tries to do, it wont help. Nixon and Co designed the healthcare system this way, to make money. It wont change because thats where a lot of our money is.

America's heathcare is one of the many reasons why one of my main goals in life is to MOVE OUT OF THE UNITED STATES. Our family didnt always have health insurance, and from those years when we couldnt afford it, I nearly died 3 times because of asthma attacks. It was very severe when I was a kid, but now its a lot better.

It really pisses me off that the inhaler medicine that I get sold is 50 dollars each...but in CUBA THEY ONLY COST 5 AMERICAN CENTS. America doesnt care about its inhabitants. I've felt the bad side to the healthcare system, and I've seen too many people pass away and live miserably WITH and WITHOUT heath insurance.

But I'm glad the bill will at least help people NOT get denied for pre-existing conditions, by their oh so caring Heath Insurance provider.
(We had that Kaiser insurance before, and after nearly dying from their fuckery, I say FUCK THEM. They wouldnt approve me being treated at a different hospital when I had a severe asthma attack, so I had to get driven to THEIR HOSPITAL to receive any kind of treatment.

Fuck America.

That's terrible. Hence why I do not like the one now. The pre-existing condition thing is what I mainly don't like. I can not feel as strongly as you do though, sorry, because I do not depend on medication. Money is the root of all evil and that is all those companies want, that is why they make you do things like that.

The government actually does care, they do not run the insurance companies and have tried to make laws that stop the insurance company bullshitting, but they have lobbyists (or some other method) that prevents these laws. Sadly.

Invincible wrote:

I was denied medical coverage when I was just a baby because of a preexisting condition. I went through numerous surgeries on my right eye to remove a cataract (very rare condition for a new born) When my dad got a new job and switched insurance companies, they denied me any further treatment because it was a preexisting condition. So thanks to our fucked up healthcare system, I'm now legally blind in my right eye. That's why this healthcare overall is something I feel very strongly about. It's personal.

I can understand you feeling personal about it, and I do like that it won't pull the pre-existing condition bullshit, I do think it is something better because of that, but it has it's cons too. While job loss is one of the cons, I am sure that me, you, and Jamin will see the bill kill the insurance companies, other then the preexisting thing, that is what I like about it, it's going to kill them.

matrixrory wrote:

we have free health care in the UK and theres nothing wrong with it. do not listen to fox news about what they say about the NHS its all propagander.

You also have crazy high taxes and waiting lines. Universal Health care has cripple German and even Canada is considering going back to a free market health system.

You're probably pretty healthy and you haven't had to deal with something as serious as say Cancer. If you have a broken leg you'll get patched up for free and sent on your way. If you get cancer you're chance of survival is far lower then in the US due to the rationing of care to save money on a system that has more people then it can afford to take care of.

That's why people who can afford it come to the US for cancer treatment, including members of parliament.

In the US the poor already have free health care, so do the elderly and military. The only people who are expected to buy their own are those who can afford it. But millions of Americans elect not to buy health insurance becuase they'd rather buy a new truck or video games. That's their right.

There are people who make too much to receive free health care, but not enough to buy their own. To fix that all we need to do is write a few laws. Cross-State health insurance purchasing, tort reform (so doctors don't have to charge more to cover possible malpractice suits), preexisting conditions, etc.

And if that doesn't get everyone access to health care, only then should we open up the something like the government worker's plans to citizens at a reduced rate.

One thing is certain. The US does NOT need universal health care. But that's not even what this bill does. It just spends tons of money we don't have to spend to add more people to a health care system it can't support. In the end it will cost us more and more and hurt the quality and availability of health care for us all.

343_Guilty_Spark wrote:

matrixrory wrote:

we have free health care in the UK and theres nothing wrong with it. do not listen to fox news about what they say about the NHS its all propagander.

You also have crazy high taxes and waiting lines. Universal Health care has cripple German and even Canada is considering going back to a free market health system.

You're probably pretty healthy and you haven't had to deal with something as serious as say Cancer. If you have a broken leg you'll get patched up for free and sent on your way. If you get cancer you're chance of survival is far lower then in the US due to the rationing of care to save money on a system that has more people then it can afford to take care of.

That's why people who can afford it come to the US for cancer treatment, including members of parliament.

In the US the poor already have free health care, so do the elderly and military. The only people who are expected to buy their own are those who can afford it. But millions of Americans elect not to buy health insurance becuase they'd rather buy a new truck or video games. That's their right.

There are people who make too much to receive free health care, but not enough to buy their own. To fix that all we need to do is write a few laws. Cross-State health insurance purchasing, tort reform (so doctors don't have to charge more to cover possible malpractice suits), preexisting conditions, etc.

And if that doesn't get everyone access to health care, only then should we open up the something like the government worker's plans to citizens at a reduced rate.

One thing is certain. The US does NOT need universal health care. But that's not even what this bill does. It just spends tons of money we don't have to spend to add more people to a health care system it can't support. In the end it will cost us more and more and hurt the quality and availability of health care for us all.

QFT!

Also, people in the government have tried to get rid of the pre-existing condition thing, but the insurance companies have lobbyists that stop it. Or they do something to prevent the laws.

The US is fucked regardless of what happens. Each and every solution only creates NEW problems or makes existing problems worse.

All I know is that something needs to be done. Each and every Health insurance agency needs to be investigated and watched. No one should be denied help, and there shouldnt be as shitty rules as having to travel to another hospital to get treatment. I remember my parents had to pay for my Ambulance transport because our insurance said the ambulance ride wasnt PREAPPROVED. >_>

Jamin wrote:

The US is fucked regardless of what happens. Each and every solution only creates NEW problems or makes existing problems worse.

All I know is that something needs to be done. Each and every Health insurance agency needs to be investigated and watched. No one should be denied help, and there shouldnt be as shitty rules as having to travel to another hospital to get treatment. I remember my parents had to pay for my Ambulance transport because our insurance said the ambulance ride wasnt PREAPPROVED. >_>

We don't need universal health care run by a government that can't even run the post office properly to fix the problems I'm sorry you've had to deal with.

Preexisting condition discrimination can be eliminated with a simple law that costs nothing. Insurance costs can be reduced greatly if cross state competition is allowed. Right now you can only buy insurance from a company in your state, so there's little or no price competition. Auto insurance is very cheap thanks to national competition, most people are very happy with their auto insurance. Companies like State Farm and Progressive have to compete nationally in price and services so we the consumer end up getting a cheap and effective auto insurance. You don't hear about people demanding the government fix or take over the auto insurance industry.

All these and other common sense fixes, like tort reform, could easily be implemented with a 2 or 3 page bill, yet instead we have a bill with over a thousand pages too full of unneeded government spending we can't afford to spend.

343_Guilty_Spark wrote:

matrixrory wrote:

we have free health care in the UK and theres nothing wrong with it. do not listen to fox news about what they say about the NHS its all propagander.

In the US the poor already have free health care, so do the elderly and military. The only people who are expected to buy their own are those who can afford it. But millions of Americans elect not to buy health insurance becuase they'd rather buy a new truck or video games. That's their right.

Yeah, it's their right. But when they do get sick or hurt then you and I end up paying for it. I would rather them have a shitty health plan then none at all.

Invincible wrote:

343_Guilty_Spark wrote:

matrixrory wrote:

we have free health care in the UK and theres nothing wrong with it. do not listen to fox news about what they say about the NHS its all propagander.

In the US the poor already have free health care, so do the elderly and military. The only people who are expected to buy their own are those who can afford it. But millions of Americans elect not to buy health insurance becuase they'd rather buy a new truck or video games. That's their right.

Yeah, it's their right. But when they do get sick or hurt then you and I end up paying for it. I would rather them have a shitty health plan then none at all.

Well I think before we make a "shitty health plan" we should first try to fix the free market health system. It wouldn't cost us a thing to try it and it wouldn't give the US government any more power or make it bigger and waste more money.

If free market fixes don't work 100% then we can look into making budget health care available in a similar was to how military personnel get their health care plan.

343_Guilty_Spark wrote:

Invincible wrote:

343_Guilty_Spark wrote:

matrixrory wrote:

we have free health care in the UK and theres nothing wrong with it. do not listen to fox news about what they say about the NHS its all propagander.

In the US the poor already have free health care, so do the elderly and military. The only people who are expected to buy their own are those who can afford it. But millions of Americans elect not to buy health insurance becuase they'd rather buy a new truck or video games. That's their right.

Yeah, it's their right. But when they do get sick or hurt then you and I end up paying for it. I would rather them have a shitty health plan then none at all.

Well I think before we make a "shitty health plan" we should first try to fix the free market health system. It wouldn't cost us a thing to try it and it wouldn't give the US government any more power or make it bigger and waste more money.

If free market fixes don't work 100% then we can look into making budget health care available in a similar was to how military personnel get their health care plan.

I thought thats pretty much what theyre doing with this bill. The problem with just passing a law that bans insurance companies from denying people coverage, is that then healthy people wont get insurance until theyre diagnosed with a problem. Yeah, you might be forced to get coverage now, but when you do get sick, you dont have to worry about getting screwed.

Well I saw Sicko (Michael Moore Docu-drama) and I say more power to people who think America is fucked up. Disgusting how they treat people, especially the 9/11 firemen, shameful. Makes me feel sick every time I think about it. These heros, left to suffer because they have no insurance. Jamin, I agree with everything you said. Kudos to you.