| Why Mass Effect 2 Going To Ps3 Is A Mistake | |
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+21Pickles Stigma Jamin Teckno TRF shadowmonkey987 joe11 Doominator99 MrPink Noelol Reasoner Alan1994 Notorious NightFang91 Tferr ghost23 hALoN4t3R52 Pein Boba_Fett GZDoolmguy DemonWolf 25 posters |
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ghost23 Four Star General (Moderator)
Posts : 3425 Join date : 2009-12-16 Location : Australia
| Subject: Re: Why Mass Effect 2 Going To Ps3 Is A Mistake Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:21 am | |
| - DemonWolf wrote:
- Alan1994 wrote:
- My inner fanboy is going to lol when ME2 PS3's lifetime sales are only 500k.
Very true.
But nah, I reckon it will just about hit a million. I doubt it will ever reach a million. Keep in mind that basically everyone who wants to play it would have played it on 360/PC a whole year ago. And also the fact that no ME1 on PS3 makes the purchase of ME2 less appealing. | |
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Doominator99 Petty Officer 1st Class
Posts : 239 Join date : 2010-04-27
| Subject: Re: Why Mass Effect 2 Going To Ps3 Is A Mistake Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:02 am | |
| Im going to wait and see what the 'recap levels' are. They might let you make the decisions or they might chose the decisions for you and you just watch a hour long cutscene | |
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DemonWolf Four Star General (Moderator)
Posts : 9104 Join date : 2009-09-11 Age : 31 Location : UK? Yes I'm fine.
| Subject: Re: Why Mass Effect 2 Going To Ps3 Is A Mistake Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:28 am | |
| - ghost23 wrote:
- DemonWolf wrote:
- Alan1994 wrote:
- My inner fanboy is going to lol when ME2 PS3's lifetime sales are only 500k.
Very true.
But nah, I reckon it will just about hit a million. I doubt it will ever reach a million. Keep in mind that basically everyone who wants to play it would have played it on 360/PC a whole year ago. And also the fact that no ME1 on PS3 makes the purchase of ME2 less appealing. True, but it'll definately hit over 500,000 eventually. | |
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joe11 Ensign
Posts : 1761 Join date : 2010-01-19 Age : 29 Location : ny
| Subject: Re: Why Mass Effect 2 Going To Ps3 Is A Mistake Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:59 am | |
| i mostly hate that the ps3 fagboys acting like they won a gold medal and that they won its f******* ANOYIN | |
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shadowmonkey987 Seaman
Posts : 44 Join date : 2009-09-12 Age : 33 Location : England
| Subject: Re: Why Mass Effect 2 Going To Ps3 Is A Mistake Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:33 am | |
| - Alan1994 wrote:
- ghost23 wrote:
- Alan1994 wrote:
- ME2 being on PS3 is not a mistake. ME1 NOT being on PS3 is a mistake. Bioware should have released both games.
It's beyond their control. MS have said that ME1 will stay exclusive forever. Possibly, but they could have tried a remake of ME1 on the PS3. Like Mass Effect Sigma or something lmao. They wouldn't be able to do that seeing as Microsoft owns the publishing rights to Mass Effect 1 (Microsoft gave BioWare the money to make ME1 therefore it's up to Microsoft whether it goes to PS3 or not) BioWare owns the Mass Effect Franchise/IP but not the Publishing Rights to ME1 they however do own Publishing Rights to ME2/ME3 and all other ME game's.. They can't make any kind of special edition/remake of the first game without Microsoft's permission.. Also about the New DLC that will be in ME2 on the PS3 theirs 6/5 months till it releases on PS3 do you really think their not going to release that stuff on XBL first.. (could be more weapons/outfits or even a full blown expansion like Awakening) They didn't talk about Exclusive Content for the PS3 they just said that some DLC will be on the disk.. (they also didn't mention that during E3 for the Dead Space 2 : Extraction and the Medal Of Honour PSN/XBLA game's so that leads me to believe that the Special Editions are exclusive but the actual PSN/XBLA game's aren't and will be released shortly after the actual game (Dead Space 2/Medal Of Honour) is released) Some companies can be very sneaky/sly when they say thing's during conferences they want people to believe that what their saying is true but really only half of it is... This is ShadowMonkey987 signing out of this topic for the time being.. | |
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TRF Chief Warrant Officer 5
Posts : 1480 Join date : 2009-10-03
| Subject: Re: Why Mass Effect 2 Going To Ps3 Is A Mistake Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:05 pm | |
| - joe11 wrote:
- i mostly hate that the ps3 fagboys acting like they won a gold medal and that they won its f******* ANOYIN
Right, because 360 fanboys flaunting Mass Effect around as an "exclusive" wasn't annoying as hell. | |
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Teckno Command Master Chief Petty Officer
Posts : 596 Join date : 2010-07-27
| Subject: Re: Why Mass Effect 2 Going To Ps3 Is A Mistake Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:06 pm | |
| - TRF wrote:
- joe11 wrote:
- i mostly hate that the ps3 fagboys acting like they won a gold medal and that they won its f******* ANOYIN
Right, because 360 fanboys flaunting Mass Effect around as an "exclusive" wasn't annoying as hell. He's from New York, don't question his posts. | |
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DemonWolf Four Star General (Moderator)
Posts : 9104 Join date : 2009-09-11 Age : 31 Location : UK? Yes I'm fine.
| Subject: Re: Why Mass Effect 2 Going To Ps3 Is A Mistake Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:10 pm | |
| - TRF wrote:
- joe11 wrote:
- i mostly hate that the ps3 fagboys acting like they won a gold medal and that they won its f******* ANOYIN
Right, because 360 fanboys flaunting Mass Effect around as an "exclusive" wasn't annoying as hell. lol But when you're arguing with ps3 fanboys, it effectively is! They bought a ps3 to play ps3 games. They can't play pc games on their ps3's so games like Mass Effect are as good as exclusive in a ps3 vs 360 argument! It's just a quicker way of saying, its on our system and pc but not yours. | |
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TRF Chief Warrant Officer 5
Posts : 1480 Join date : 2009-10-03
| Subject: Re: Why Mass Effect 2 Going To Ps3 Is A Mistake Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:12 pm | |
| - DemonWolf wrote:
- TRF wrote:
- joe11 wrote:
- i mostly hate that the ps3 fagboys acting like they won a gold medal and that they won its f******* ANOYIN
Right, because 360 fanboys flaunting Mass Effect around as an "exclusive" wasn't annoying as hell. lol
But when you're arguing with ps3 fanboys, it effectively is! They bought a ps3 to play ps3 games. They can't play pc games on their ps3's so games like Mass Effect are as good as exclusive in a ps3 vs 360 argument! It's just a quicker way of saying, its on our system and pc but not yours. Regardless of whether or not you consider it to be exclusive, the flaunting is still there. If you're allowed to flaunt it as an exclusive, then PS3 fanboys are allowed to flaunt it as a lost exclusive. Either way, it's annoying on both sides. | |
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Jamin Command Master Chief Petty Officer
Posts : 582 Join date : 2010-02-10
| Subject: Re: Why Mass Effect 2 Going To Ps3 Is A Mistake Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:42 pm | |
| - TRF wrote:
Regardless of whether or not you consider it to be exclusive, the flaunting is still there. If you're allowed to flaunt it as an exclusive, then PS3 fanboys are allowed to flaunt it as a lost exclusive. Either way, it's annoying on both sides. I believe a remember someone saying "Mass Effect 2 is an Xbox360 Multiplat not on PS3. Its not on your console, you cant play this, so it counts as a win for us & a blow to PS3."...but then when Mass Effect 2 is announced for PS3, this person said, "We only lost a multiplat not on ps3. Not really a blow to 360." & now on the forums, its a "2010 Exclusive". | |
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TRF Chief Warrant Officer 5
Posts : 1480 Join date : 2009-10-03
| Subject: Re: Why Mass Effect 2 Going To Ps3 Is A Mistake Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:55 pm | |
| - Jamin wrote:
- TRF wrote:
Regardless of whether or not you consider it to be exclusive, the flaunting is still there. If you're allowed to flaunt it as an exclusive, then PS3 fanboys are allowed to flaunt it as a lost exclusive. Either way, it's annoying on both sides. I believe a remember someone saying "Mass Effect 2 is an Xbox360 Multiplat not on PS3. Its not on your console, you cant play this, so it counts as a win for us & a blow to PS3."...but then when Mass Effect 2 is announced for PS3, this person said, "We only lost a multiplat not on ps3. Not really a blow to 360." & now on the forums, its a "2010 Exclusive". Fanboys will never admit defeat. Even if every console on the market suffers spontaneous combustion all at once, the fanboys for that console would still find some stupid way to explain it. | |
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DemonWolf Four Star General (Moderator)
Posts : 9104 Join date : 2009-09-11 Age : 31 Location : UK? Yes I'm fine.
| Subject: Re: Why Mass Effect 2 Going To Ps3 Is A Mistake Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:06 pm | |
| - TRF wrote:
- DemonWolf wrote:
- TRF wrote:
- joe11 wrote:
- i mostly hate that the ps3 fagboys acting like they won a gold medal and that they won its f******* ANOYIN
Right, because 360 fanboys flaunting Mass Effect around as an "exclusive" wasn't annoying as hell. lol
But when you're arguing with ps3 fanboys, it effectively is! They bought a ps3 to play ps3 games. They can't play pc games on their ps3's so games like Mass Effect are as good as exclusive in a ps3 vs 360 argument! It's just a quicker way of saying, its on our system and pc but not yours. Regardless of whether or not you consider it to be exclusive, the flaunting is still there. If you're allowed to flaunt it as an exclusive, then PS3 fanboys are allowed to flaunt it as a lost exclusive. Either way, it's annoying on both sides. Yeah, fine. It's a lost exclusive. I'm cool with that. It is effectively. It was on 360 and now its on ps3. Even if it is somewhat stripped down. | |
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TRF Chief Warrant Officer 5
Posts : 1480 Join date : 2009-10-03
| Subject: Re: Why Mass Effect 2 Going To Ps3 Is A Mistake Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:17 pm | |
| - DemonWolf wrote:
- TRF wrote:
- DemonWolf wrote:
- TRF wrote:
- joe11 wrote:
- i mostly hate that the ps3 fagboys acting like they won a gold medal and that they won its f******* ANOYIN
Right, because 360 fanboys flaunting Mass Effect around as an "exclusive" wasn't annoying as hell. lol
But when you're arguing with ps3 fanboys, it effectively is! They bought a ps3 to play ps3 games. They can't play pc games on their ps3's so games like Mass Effect are as good as exclusive in a ps3 vs 360 argument! It's just a quicker way of saying, its on our system and pc but not yours. Regardless of whether or not you consider it to be exclusive, the flaunting is still there. If you're allowed to flaunt it as an exclusive, then PS3 fanboys are allowed to flaunt it as a lost exclusive. Either way, it's annoying on both sides. Yeah, fine. It's a lost exclusive. I'm cool with that. It is effectively. It was on 360 and now its on ps3. Even if it is somewhat stripped down. Well, technically it's superior on the PS3 since it comes with all of the DLC for free, but as a series, Mass Effect is better-played on the 360 or PC. | |
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Alan1994 Chief Warrant Officer 3
Posts : 1146 Join date : 2010-03-08
| Subject: Re: Why Mass Effect 2 Going To Ps3 Is A Mistake Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:07 pm | |
| - TRF wrote:
- DemonWolf wrote:
- TRF wrote:
- DemonWolf wrote:
- TRF wrote:
- joe11 wrote:
- i mostly hate that the ps3 fagboys acting like they won a gold medal and that they won its f******* ANOYIN
Right, because 360 fanboys flaunting Mass Effect around as an "exclusive" wasn't annoying as hell. lol
But when you're arguing with ps3 fanboys, it effectively is! They bought a ps3 to play ps3 games. They can't play pc games on their ps3's so games like Mass Effect are as good as exclusive in a ps3 vs 360 argument! It's just a quicker way of saying, its on our system and pc but not yours. Regardless of whether or not you consider it to be exclusive, the flaunting is still there. If you're allowed to flaunt it as an exclusive, then PS3 fanboys are allowed to flaunt it as a lost exclusive. Either way, it's annoying on both sides. Yeah, fine. It's a lost exclusive. I'm cool with that. It is effectively. It was on 360 and now its on ps3. Even if it is somewhat stripped down. Well, technically it's superior on the PS3 since it comes with all of the DLC for free, but as a series, Mass Effect is better-played on the 360 or PC. It can't be superior on the PS3 when it's going to be full price for the game+ DLC. The price of the X360 version right now is 30-40 bucks I believe. Besides, a GOTY edition would probably make it's way to the X360. | |
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Stigma Four Star General (Moderator)
Posts : 2309 Join date : 2009-12-01 Location : US
| Subject: Re: Why Mass Effect 2 Going To Ps3 Is A Mistake Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:08 pm | |
| - Alan1994 wrote:
- It can't be superior on the PS3 when it's going to be full price for the game+ DLC. The price of the X360 version right now is 30-40 bucks I believe. Besides, a GOTY edition would probably make it's way to the X360.
Mass Effect 2 is $30 new at Gamestop right now. | |
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Pickles Chief Warrant Officer 4
Posts : 1189 Join date : 2009-12-01
| Subject: Re: Why Mass Effect 2 Going To Ps3 Is A Mistake Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:42 am | |
| - BlackStigma wrote:
- Alan1994 wrote:
- It can't be superior on the PS3 when it's going to be full price for the game+ DLC. The price of the X360 version right now is 30-40 bucks I believe. Besides, a GOTY edition would probably make it's way to the X360.
Mass Effect 2 is $30 new at Gamestop right now.
It's cheaper at Amazon. I like how the Console War section is becoming deserted. Hooray! The Xbox Republic is evolving! | |
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DemonWolf Four Star General (Moderator)
Posts : 9104 Join date : 2009-09-11 Age : 31 Location : UK? Yes I'm fine.
| Subject: Re: Why Mass Effect 2 Going To Ps3 Is A Mistake Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:57 am | |
| - TRF wrote:
- DemonWolf wrote:
- TRF wrote:
- DemonWolf wrote:
- TRF wrote:
- joe11 wrote:
- i mostly hate that the ps3 fagboys acting like they won a gold medal and that they won its f******* ANOYIN
Right, because 360 fanboys flaunting Mass Effect around as an "exclusive" wasn't annoying as hell. lol
But when you're arguing with ps3 fanboys, it effectively is! They bought a ps3 to play ps3 games. They can't play pc games on their ps3's so games like Mass Effect are as good as exclusive in a ps3 vs 360 argument! It's just a quicker way of saying, its on our system and pc but not yours. Regardless of whether or not you consider it to be exclusive, the flaunting is still there. If you're allowed to flaunt it as an exclusive, then PS3 fanboys are allowed to flaunt it as a lost exclusive. Either way, it's annoying on both sides. Yeah, fine. It's a lost exclusive. I'm cool with that. It is effectively. It was on 360 and now its on ps3. Even if it is somewhat stripped down. Well, technically it's superior on the PS3 since it comes with all of the DLC for free, but as a series, Mass Effect is better-played on the 360 or PC. Yes, fully agree. | |
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ghost23 Four Star General (Moderator)
Posts : 3425 Join date : 2009-12-16 Location : Australia
| Subject: Re: Why Mass Effect 2 Going To Ps3 Is A Mistake Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:33 am | |
| - TRF wrote:
- DemonWolf wrote:
- TRF wrote:
- DemonWolf wrote:
- TRF wrote:
- joe11 wrote:
- i mostly hate that the ps3 fagboys acting like they won a gold medal and that they won its f******* ANOYIN
Right, because 360 fanboys flaunting Mass Effect around as an "exclusive" wasn't annoying as hell. lol
But when you're arguing with ps3 fanboys, it effectively is! They bought a ps3 to play ps3 games. They can't play pc games on their ps3's so games like Mass Effect are as good as exclusive in a ps3 vs 360 argument! It's just a quicker way of saying, its on our system and pc but not yours. Regardless of whether or not you consider it to be exclusive, the flaunting is still there. If you're allowed to flaunt it as an exclusive, then PS3 fanboys are allowed to flaunt it as a lost exclusive. Either way, it's annoying on both sides. Yeah, fine. It's a lost exclusive. I'm cool with that. It is effectively. It was on 360 and now its on ps3. Even if it is somewhat stripped down. Well, technically it's superior on the PS3 since it comes with all of the DLC for free, but as a series, Mass Effect is better-played on the 360 or PC. Well.. No. PS3 version doesn't have save game import which is arguable one of the biggest features of ME. | |
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Xeno-Left this cesspool Petty Officer 3rd Class
Posts : 67 Join date : 2010-07-06 Age : 30 Location : America
| Subject: Re: Why Mass Effect 2 Going To Ps3 Is A Mistake Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:52 pm | |
| This won't sell shit on the ps3, my proof being, look at the sales for bioshock. | |
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TRF Chief Warrant Officer 5
Posts : 1480 Join date : 2009-10-03
| Subject: Re: Why Mass Effect 2 Going To Ps3 Is A Mistake Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:15 pm | |
| - ghost23 wrote:
- TRF wrote:
- DemonWolf wrote:
- TRF wrote:
- DemonWolf wrote:
- TRF wrote:
- joe11 wrote:
- i mostly hate that the ps3 fagboys acting like they won a gold medal and that they won its f******* ANOYIN
Right, because 360 fanboys flaunting Mass Effect around as an "exclusive" wasn't annoying as hell. lol
But when you're arguing with ps3 fanboys, it effectively is! They bought a ps3 to play ps3 games. They can't play pc games on their ps3's so games like Mass Effect are as good as exclusive in a ps3 vs 360 argument! It's just a quicker way of saying, its on our system and pc but not yours. Regardless of whether or not you consider it to be exclusive, the flaunting is still there. If you're allowed to flaunt it as an exclusive, then PS3 fanboys are allowed to flaunt it as a lost exclusive. Either way, it's annoying on both sides. Yeah, fine. It's a lost exclusive. I'm cool with that. It is effectively. It was on 360 and now its on ps3. Even if it is somewhat stripped down. Well, technically it's superior on the PS3 since it comes with all of the DLC for free, but as a series, Mass Effect is better-played on the 360 or PC. Well.. No. PS3 version doesn't have save game import which is arguable one of the biggest features of ME. You can still play the game just fine without the first game. The save feature is something that affects the the whole trilogy, not the specific games. | |
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ghost23 Four Star General (Moderator)
Posts : 3425 Join date : 2009-12-16 Location : Australia
| Subject: Re: Why Mass Effect 2 Going To Ps3 Is A Mistake Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:55 pm | |
| - TRF wrote:
- ghost23 wrote:
- TRF wrote:
- DemonWolf wrote:
- TRF wrote:
- DemonWolf wrote:
- TRF wrote:
- joe11 wrote:
- i mostly hate that the ps3 fagboys acting like they won a gold medal and that they won its f******* ANOYIN
Right, because 360 fanboys flaunting Mass Effect around as an "exclusive" wasn't annoying as hell. lol
But when you're arguing with ps3 fanboys, it effectively is! They bought a ps3 to play ps3 games. They can't play pc games on their ps3's so games like Mass Effect are as good as exclusive in a ps3 vs 360 argument! It's just a quicker way of saying, its on our system and pc but not yours. Regardless of whether or not you consider it to be exclusive, the flaunting is still there. If you're allowed to flaunt it as an exclusive, then PS3 fanboys are allowed to flaunt it as a lost exclusive. Either way, it's annoying on both sides. Yeah, fine. It's a lost exclusive. I'm cool with that. It is effectively. It was on 360 and now its on ps3. Even if it is somewhat stripped down. Well, technically it's superior on the PS3 since it comes with all of the DLC for free, but as a series, Mass Effect is better-played on the 360 or PC. Well.. No. PS3 version doesn't have save game import which is arguable one of the biggest features of ME. You can still play the game just fine without the first game. The save feature is something that affects the the whole trilogy, not the specific games. Yes you can but there is still a substantial part of the second game that you will be missing if you don't import it as well. And this also applies for the 3rd game. | |
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DemonWolf Four Star General (Moderator)
Posts : 9104 Join date : 2009-09-11 Age : 31 Location : UK? Yes I'm fine.
| Subject: Re: Why Mass Effect 2 Going To Ps3 Is A Mistake Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:44 am | |
| @ ghost,
Yes exactly. The game is just like any other without importing your save. But by importing your save and just by playing the first game, you are immersed even better into the world. In fact ME2 wouldn't be the game it is if it weren't for the first game and the import feature. When playing ME2 it's amazing that it continued where it left off, the way people talked to me about decisions I had made on the first game and the way you see the impact of what happened in the first game. Ie: Going to the krogan world and everyone talking about Wrex and how great he was. It actually made me feel regret that he was killed and this makes you like the game even more, as you have an emotional connection to the characters. And when you meet familiar faces, it's just so awesome! | |
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Stoney Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Posts : 2812 Join date : 2009-11-03 Age : 35 Location : In the gutter
| Subject: Re: Why Mass Effect 2 Going To Ps3 Is A Mistake Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:54 am | |
| - DemonWolf wrote:
- @ ghost,
Yes exactly. The game is just like any other without importing your save. But by importing your save and just by playing the first game, you are immersed even better into the world. In fact ME2 wouldn't be the game it is if it weren't for the first game and the import feature. When playing ME2 it's amazing that it continued where it left off, the way people talked to me about decisions I had made on the first game and the way you see the impact of what happened in the first game. Ie: Going to the krogan world and everyone talking about Wrex and how great he was. It actually made me feel regret that he was killed and this makes you like the game even more, as you have an emotional connection to the characters. And when you meet familiar faces, it's just so awesome! Yo let Wrex die? BASTARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | |
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TRF Chief Warrant Officer 5
Posts : 1480 Join date : 2009-10-03
| Subject: Re: Why Mass Effect 2 Going To Ps3 Is A Mistake Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:00 am | |
| - ghost23 wrote:
- TRF wrote:
- ghost23 wrote:
- TRF wrote:
- DemonWolf wrote:
- TRF wrote:
- DemonWolf wrote:
- TRF wrote:
- joe11 wrote:
- i mostly hate that the ps3 fagboys acting like they won a gold medal and that they won its f******* ANOYIN
Right, because 360 fanboys flaunting Mass Effect around as an "exclusive" wasn't annoying as hell. lol
But when you're arguing with ps3 fanboys, it effectively is! They bought a ps3 to play ps3 games. They can't play pc games on their ps3's so games like Mass Effect are as good as exclusive in a ps3 vs 360 argument! It's just a quicker way of saying, its on our system and pc but not yours. Regardless of whether or not you consider it to be exclusive, the flaunting is still there. If you're allowed to flaunt it as an exclusive, then PS3 fanboys are allowed to flaunt it as a lost exclusive. Either way, it's annoying on both sides. Yeah, fine. It's a lost exclusive. I'm cool with that. It is effectively. It was on 360 and now its on ps3. Even if it is somewhat stripped down. Well, technically it's superior on the PS3 since it comes with all of the DLC for free, but as a series, Mass Effect is better-played on the 360 or PC. Well.. No. PS3 version doesn't have save game import which is arguable one of the biggest features of ME. You can still play the game just fine without the first game. The save feature is something that affects the the whole trilogy, not the specific games. Yes you can but there is still a substantial part of the second game that you will be missing if you don't import it as well. And this also applies for the 3rd game. Again, I see that as a series-wide thing. If you played Mass Effect 2 without playing Mass Effect, you wouldn't notice any of the little things a Mass Effect played would notice. Importing your save does not make the game itself better, but it makes the series as a whole better. It's kinda hard to explain in text, so I hope you understand what the hell I'm saying. | |
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Inuboy1000 Fleet Master Chief Petty Officer
Posts : 681 Join date : 2010-07-15 Age : 30 Location : None of Your Business!
| Subject: Re: Why Mass Effect 2 Going To Ps3 Is A Mistake Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:43 am | |
| I think talking about Mass Effect going to the PS3 being a "Mistake" kinda reminds me of Metal Gear Solid going to the 360. I mean people can say we "have not" experienced the full MGS story, when several people who own 360's could have played the previous MGS titles on the PS1, and PS2. How do we know PS3 owners have not played ME1 on 360 or PC? | |
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