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 Graphics Of The Year?

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Graphics
God Of War
Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 Vote_lcap42%Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 Vote_rcap
 42% [ 16 ]
Enslaved
Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 Vote_lcap3%Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 Vote_rcap
 3% [ 1 ]
Heavy Rain
Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 Vote_lcap11%Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 Vote_rcap
 11% [ 4 ]
Mass Effect 2
Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 Vote_lcap11%Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 Vote_rcap
 11% [ 4 ]
Sniper Ghost Warrior
Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 Vote_lcap3%Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 Vote_rcap
 3% [ 1 ]
Halo Reach
Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 Vote_lcap13%Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 Vote_rcap
 13% [ 5 ]
Alan Wake
Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 Vote_lcap13%Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 Vote_rcap
 13% [ 5 ]
Splinter Cell Conviction
Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 Vote_lcap0%Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 Vote_rcap
 0% [ 0 ]
Castlevania Lord Of Shadows
Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 Vote_lcap4%Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 Vote_rcap
 4% [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 38
 

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DemonWolf
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PostSubject: Re: Graphics Of The Year?   Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 EmptyThu Oct 14, 2010 6:30 pm

Jamin wrote:
Yes, you would be eaten alive. The reason you're here is because outside this forum, your delusions are dispelled. You commented once on MLD's XBR video stating that this place was the "safe haven" from PS3 fanboys. On THIS forum, you're less likely to have your "points" and "statements" questioned, which explains the draw for some among us. XDYou made both statements in a PM you sent me Nov 2009 if you haven't deleted your sent folder on Youtube, you'll find it. "The game looked fun from a CONSOLE WAR PERSPECTIVE"....wtf does that mean?Does it matter if its in the GAME section or Console war section? The fact of the matter is, that you made the statement that the unreleased game (with barely any details) looked better than an already released product. What sense does it make to compare two products where one isn't even complete? Its like movie trailers, they can look good, but the movie can still be shit when its released. You even did a Halo Reach vs Killzone 2 Graphics comparison back in DEC 2009!!. You criticize others for liking graphics over gameplay (even though most games with phenomenal graphics go hand in hand with good gameplay) and you call them graphics whores.......so what would you call someone that's hellbent on arguing about graphics, comparing graphics constantly, posts bad screenshots of other games to make it look worse than another game, and etc? You might see yourself in a different category as those guys, but its all the same. You're a graphics whore. I'm familiar with your posts for the same reason why I'm familiar with things said by Pyro, Truth, Sarah Palin, KingMasterReview, Waynopercy, weeeeeee186, MLD, Magneto39, and etc. I'll let you take a guess as to what the connection is.

-Nothing to do with my opinions being argued against. I just like the fact that I don't see immature noobs throwing around the same pathetic comments. I prefer to have intelligent discussions.
In fact, right here, we're having an argument. The difference is that it's not the same old arguments you get with ps3 fanboys.

-If it's in the console war section I pit it up against games on the opposing system. I'm critical about what the game's made of. I don't care how it looks, I care about looking deeper than the surface and find a way to make my point. Even when I'm sometimes wrong, It makes no difference, I'm still doing what I set out to do... .have fun Razz But in this case I believe I am correct. I mean, you've completely swayed this argument completely off topic.

-Yeah I know, it is foolish of me to compare unfinished to finished. I'll keep that in mind in the future.

-LOL you're accusing me of a graphics whore?
Right. Well why is it that to this day I can still play Monkey Island, Broken Sword, Grim Fandango, Little Big Adventure, Diablo 2, GTA 1, Heroes Of Might N Magic 3, etc.... ?
Hell, why do some of my favourite games this generation have pretty mediocre graphics? (Shadowrun, Oblivion, Crackdown 1, etc)
I argue for the fun of it. And also when I believe people are being delusional, I like to bring them to reality.

But yeah.... keep bragging about your playstation 2 graphics. It's funny to watch.
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PostSubject: Re: Graphics Of The Year?   Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 EmptyThu Oct 14, 2010 6:41 pm

Admit it, BBC. I won this fight. I got ninety nine nights 2 on my side, fool!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Graphics Of The Year?   Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 EmptyThu Oct 14, 2010 6:45 pm

DemonWolf wrote:
Admit it, BBC. I won this fight. I got ninety nine nights 2 on my side, fool!!!!
It's DemonWolf and one mirrion twoops versus BBC, Stoney, and I. Yeah, I still think we won. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Graphics Of The Year?   Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 EmptyThu Oct 14, 2010 9:07 pm

Woe is me, I should have known it was useless to even try. That is why we won't see such things outside this forum. Same shit from a year ago. XD And it will take more than you and Engrish to defeat me, let alone anyone. XD
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PostSubject: Re: Graphics Of The Year?   Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 EmptyFri Oct 15, 2010 2:56 pm

TRF wrote:
DemonWolf wrote:
Admit it, BBC. I won this fight. I got ninety nine nights 2 on my side, fool!!!!
It's DemonWolf and one mirrion twoops versus BBC, Stoney, and I. Yeah, I still think we won. Razz

ah bat the one mirrion twups weel be vewy powerhal indeed! Nosing you can doo weel stop as.

Jamin wrote:
Woe is me, I should have known it was useless to even try. That is why we won't see such things outside this forum. Same shit from a year ago. XD And it will take more than you and Engrish to defeat me, let alone anyone. XD


My engrish is supirior tan your engrish! And miy twups will difeat your giant enemy crabs.
remember I did not say anysing about sorrid snek.
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PostSubject: Re: Graphics Of The Year?   Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 EmptyFri Oct 15, 2010 2:59 pm

Alan1994 wrote:
Demon Wolf....

This thread is about GRAPHICS....VISUAL FIDELITY. Alot of your comments were about how GOW3 isn't "open" and such.

GOW3 is a VERY good looking game. It's not just hyped up to be "teh best graphics ever" because some PS3 fanboys praise it.

It's not "ps2 standard" either. God of War 3 runs in HD and uses some of the best costum anti-aliasing I've seen in a while. The custom solution that GOW3 uses is equivalent to 16xAA in a static screen and atleast 4xAA in motion. On top of all this, it runs 60 frames per second....with a 30 FPS MINIMUM meaning that it's very rare that is shall dip to the 30s.

Again, I shall repeat...This thread is about which game sports the best visuals of this year. GOW3 by far has the best visuals. It doesn't matter that it doesn't set a new benchmark for AI tech or that it's linear, that is irrelevant to what we are discussing.

None of the games you compared it too even look half as good as GOW3. Splinter Cell Conviction doesn't technically compare to GOW3. I mean it runs in sub-HD, 30 FPS, and uses a "modified" last gen engine (Unreal Engine 2.5). SCC is a good game on it's own and it has it's own strengths, but don't compare it to God of War in visuals...

Alan, I voted God Of War 3 as one of the best looking games because yes, it is among the best looking I've ever seen. But we're debating whether it is really as system pushing as it would appear, and whether 360's tech could handle it.
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PostSubject: Re: Graphics Of The Year?   Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 EmptyFri Oct 15, 2010 5:19 pm

DemonWolf wrote:
Alan1994 wrote:
Demon Wolf....

This thread is about GRAPHICS....VISUAL FIDELITY. Alot of your comments were about how GOW3 isn't "open" and such.

GOW3 is a VERY good looking game. It's not just hyped up to be "teh best graphics ever" because some PS3 fanboys praise it.

It's not "ps2 standard" either. God of War 3 runs in HD and uses some of the best costum anti-aliasing I've seen in a while. The custom solution that GOW3 uses is equivalent to 16xAA in a static screen and atleast 4xAA in motion. On top of all this, it runs 60 frames per second....with a 30 FPS MINIMUM meaning that it's very rare that is shall dip to the 30s.

Again, I shall repeat...This thread is about which game sports the best visuals of this year. GOW3 by far has the best visuals. It doesn't matter that it doesn't set a new benchmark for AI tech or that it's linear, that is irrelevant to what we are discussing.

None of the games you compared it too even look half as good as GOW3. Splinter Cell Conviction doesn't technically compare to GOW3. I mean it runs in sub-HD, 30 FPS, and uses a "modified" last gen engine (Unreal Engine 2.5). SCC is a good game on it's own and it has it's own strengths, but don't compare it to God of War in visuals...

Alan, I voted God Of War 3 as one of the best looking games because yes, it is among the best looking I've ever seen. But we're debating whether it is really as system pushing as it would appear, and whether 360's tech could handle it.

You absolutely can't argue that it could handle it. GOW3 uses an engine built from the ground up to take advantage of the PS3's strentghs. Hell even the anti-aliasing solution would be impossible to code on the X360 since it is a PS3 exclusive-solution. I mean the same could be said about how people say Gears of War or Halo Reach can be done on the PS3. No one knows that.
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PostSubject: Re: Graphics Of The Year?   Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 EmptyFri Oct 15, 2010 6:23 pm

Alan1994 wrote:
DemonWolf wrote:
Alan1994 wrote:
Demon Wolf....

This thread is about GRAPHICS....VISUAL FIDELITY. Alot of your comments were about how GOW3 isn't "open" and such.

GOW3 is a VERY good looking game. It's not just hyped up to be "teh best graphics ever" because some PS3 fanboys praise it.

It's not "ps2 standard" either. God of War 3 runs in HD and uses some of the best costum anti-aliasing I've seen in a while. The custom solution that GOW3 uses is equivalent to 16xAA in a static screen and atleast 4xAA in motion. On top of all this, it runs 60 frames per second....with a 30 FPS MINIMUM meaning that it's very rare that is shall dip to the 30s.

Again, I shall repeat...This thread is about which game sports the best visuals of this year. GOW3 by far has the best visuals. It doesn't matter that it doesn't set a new benchmark for AI tech or that it's linear, that is irrelevant to what we are discussing.

None of the games you compared it too even look half as good as GOW3. Splinter Cell Conviction doesn't technically compare to GOW3. I mean it runs in sub-HD, 30 FPS, and uses a "modified" last gen engine (Unreal Engine 2.5). SCC is a good game on it's own and it has it's own strengths, but don't compare it to God of War in visuals...

Alan, I voted God Of War 3 as one of the best looking games because yes, it is among the best looking I've ever seen. But we're debating whether it is really as system pushing as it would appear, and whether 360's tech could handle it.

You absolutely can't argue that it could handle it. GOW3 uses an engine built from the ground up to take advantage of the PS3's strentghs. Hell even the anti-aliasing solution would be impossible to code on the X360 since it is a PS3 exclusive-solution. I mean the same could be said about how people say Gears of War or Halo Reach can be done on the PS3. No one knows that.

Obviously. I know that. Hell, it's arguable that some of the worst looking 360 exclusives wouldn't be possible on ps3 because it's coded and built up for the 360 in that way. Yeah, I've established that but the point is that God Of War, despite being pretty much unbeaten visually from a normal gaming standpoint, this is due to it's gameplay form. Technically-speaking I'm certain that there are games on 360 that are technically, graphically superior. A playstation 2 could look like a ps3 game if it was zoomed out enough, had a restrictive camera and just had extra detail on the character model and some environmental pieces which the camera moves close-by to. In fact that's more or less what god of war is. Yes, as you mentioned it does have it's stong points like the anti-aliasing is very good, and yeah I noticed that when I played it. Very smooth. But let's face it, so far there's been no game that has anti-aliasing like that mixed with texture detail like perfect dark zero's, mixed with a fully movable, close-up camera, mixed with hundreds of environmental models and moving pieces, running at over 30fps. The closest thing there is is Crysis. But that's why I always mention Perfect Dark Zero. It is up-close to the environments always, as it's in first person. But unlike KZ2, there isn't just focus on the character models and weapons, the environments are beautiful, the texture detail superb. I believe, and maybe I'm wrong because I'm not that intelligent with all this technical stuff, but Perfect Dark Zero seems to me as more graphically impressive than Uncharted 2 or God Of War or Heavy Rain (though HR was pretty easy to beat because it has mediocre textures. Really beautiful game overall though).
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PostSubject: Re: Graphics Of The Year?   Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 EmptyFri Oct 15, 2010 6:59 pm

DemonWolf wrote:
Alan1994 wrote:
DemonWolf wrote:
Alan1994 wrote:
Demon Wolf....

This thread is about GRAPHICS....VISUAL FIDELITY. Alot of your comments were about how GOW3 isn't "open" and such.

GOW3 is a VERY good looking game. It's not just hyped up to be "teh best graphics ever" because some PS3 fanboys praise it.

It's not "ps2 standard" either. God of War 3 runs in HD and uses some of the best costum anti-aliasing I've seen in a while. The custom solution that GOW3 uses is equivalent to 16xAA in a static screen and atleast 4xAA in motion. On top of all this, it runs 60 frames per second....with a 30 FPS MINIMUM meaning that it's very rare that is shall dip to the 30s.

Again, I shall repeat...This thread is about which game sports the best visuals of this year. GOW3 by far has the best visuals. It doesn't matter that it doesn't set a new benchmark for AI tech or that it's linear, that is irrelevant to what we are discussing.

None of the games you compared it too even look half as good as GOW3. Splinter Cell Conviction doesn't technically compare to GOW3. I mean it runs in sub-HD, 30 FPS, and uses a "modified" last gen engine (Unreal Engine 2.5). SCC is a good game on it's own and it has it's own strengths, but don't compare it to God of War in visuals...

Alan, I voted God Of War 3 as one of the best looking games because yes, it is among the best looking I've ever seen. But we're debating whether it is really as system pushing as it would appear, and whether 360's tech could handle it.

You absolutely can't argue that it could handle it. GOW3 uses an engine built from the ground up to take advantage of the PS3's strentghs. Hell even the anti-aliasing solution would be impossible to code on the X360 since it is a PS3 exclusive-solution. I mean the same could be said about how people say Gears of War or Halo Reach can be done on the PS3. No one knows that.

Obviously. I know that. Hell, it's arguable that some of the worst looking 360 exclusives wouldn't be possible on ps3 because it's coded and built up for the 360 in that way. Yeah, I've established that but the point is that God Of War, despite being pretty much unbeaten visually from a normal gaming standpoint, this is due to it's gameplay form. Technically-speaking I'm certain that there are games on 360 that are technically, graphically superior. A playstation 2 could look like a ps3 game if it was zoomed out enough, had a restrictive camera and just had extra detail on the character model and some environmental pieces which the camera moves close-by to. In fact that's more or less what god of war is. Yes, as you mentioned it does have it's stong points like the anti-aliasing is very good, and yeah I noticed that when I played it. Very smooth. But let's face it, so far there's been no game that has anti-aliasing like that mixed with texture detail like perfect dark zero's, mixed with a fully movable, close-up camera, mixed with hundreds of environmental models and moving pieces, running at over 30fps. The closest thing there is is Crysis. But that's why I always mention Perfect Dark Zero. It is up-close to the environments always, as it's in first person. But unlike KZ2, there isn't just focus on the character models and weapons, the environments are beautiful, the texture detail superb. I believe, and maybe I'm wrong because I'm not that intelligent with all this technical stuff, but Perfect Dark Zero seems to me as more graphically impressive than Uncharted 2 or God Of War or Heavy Rain (though HR was pretty easy to beat because it has mediocre textures. Really beautiful game overall though).

Okay there were alot of things wrong with what you said.

A playstation 2 game could NOT look like that. Some of God of War 3's textures are 2048 X 2048 in size. The average PS2 textures are 512 X 512 in size. You seem to argue about texture detail quite a bit. The reason WHY God of War 3 looks good is not because it's zoomed out. It's textures are actually it's best strength when it comes to the game engine. I personally think that bringing up PDZ is weak sauce. First off, the polygon models in that game are very outdated. The lighting is very simple and is largely a post-processing effect. And the many of the same textures are re-used for the environments, thus giving that pseudo high-quality texture mapping you keep talking about....while games like God of War have a variety of them. I mean don't get me wrong, it was a good looking Launch title, but please move on. That game was borderline last gen. It's almost embarrasing that you bring it up, as I can list dozens of X360 exclusives that wipe the floor with PDZ, as they naturally should (the game came out 5 years ago!).

The camera set-up in GOW3 isn't a graphics compromise. It's a gameplay decision. ALL God of War games have a fixed camera. It's a hack and slash game, Ninja Gaiden also uses the same set-up and no one is claiming that it is a graphics compromise.
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PostSubject: Re: Graphics Of The Year?   Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 EmptyFri Oct 15, 2010 7:15 pm

Alan1994 wrote:
DemonWolf wrote:
Alan1994 wrote:
DemonWolf wrote:
Alan1994 wrote:
Demon Wolf....

This thread is about GRAPHICS....VISUAL FIDELITY. Alot of your comments were about how GOW3 isn't "open" and such.

GOW3 is a VERY good looking game. It's not just hyped up to be "teh best graphics ever" because some PS3 fanboys praise it.

It's not "ps2 standard" either. God of War 3 runs in HD and uses some of the best costum anti-aliasing I've seen in a while. The custom solution that GOW3 uses is equivalent to 16xAA in a static screen and atleast 4xAA in motion. On top of all this, it runs 60 frames per second....with a 30 FPS MINIMUM meaning that it's very rare that is shall dip to the 30s.

Again, I shall repeat...This thread is about which game sports the best visuals of this year. GOW3 by far has the best visuals. It doesn't matter that it doesn't set a new benchmark for AI tech or that it's linear, that is irrelevant to what we are discussing.

None of the games you compared it too even look half as good as GOW3. Splinter Cell Conviction doesn't technically compare to GOW3. I mean it runs in sub-HD, 30 FPS, and uses a "modified" last gen engine (Unreal Engine 2.5). SCC is a good game on it's own and it has it's own strengths, but don't compare it to God of War in visuals...

Alan, I voted God Of War 3 as one of the best looking games because yes, it is among the best looking I've ever seen. But we're debating whether it is really as system pushing as it would appear, and whether 360's tech could handle it.

You absolutely can't argue that it could handle it. GOW3 uses an engine built from the ground up to take advantage of the PS3's strentghs. Hell even the anti-aliasing solution would be impossible to code on the X360 since it is a PS3 exclusive-solution. I mean the same could be said about how people say Gears of War or Halo Reach can be done on the PS3. No one knows that.

Obviously. I know that. Hell, it's arguable that some of the worst looking 360 exclusives wouldn't be possible on ps3 because it's coded and built up for the 360 in that way. Yeah, I've established that but the point is that God Of War, despite being pretty much unbeaten visually from a normal gaming standpoint, this is due to it's gameplay form. Technically-speaking I'm certain that there are games on 360 that are technically, graphically superior. A playstation 2 could look like a ps3 game if it was zoomed out enough, had a restrictive camera and just had extra detail on the character model and some environmental pieces which the camera moves close-by to. In fact that's more or less what god of war is. Yes, as you mentioned it does have it's stong points like the anti-aliasing is very good, and yeah I noticed that when I played it. Very smooth. But let's face it, so far there's been no game that has anti-aliasing like that mixed with texture detail like perfect dark zero's, mixed with a fully movable, close-up camera, mixed with hundreds of environmental models and moving pieces, running at over 30fps. The closest thing there is is Crysis. But that's why I always mention Perfect Dark Zero. It is up-close to the environments always, as it's in first person. But unlike KZ2, there isn't just focus on the character models and weapons, the environments are beautiful, the texture detail superb. I believe, and maybe I'm wrong because I'm not that intelligent with all this technical stuff, but Perfect Dark Zero seems to me as more graphically impressive than Uncharted 2 or God Of War or Heavy Rain (though HR was pretty easy to beat because it has mediocre textures. Really beautiful game overall though).

Okay there were alot of things wrong with what you said.

A playstation 2 game could NOT look like that. Some of God of War 3's textures are 2048 X 2048 in size. The average PS2 textures are 512 X 512 in size. You seem to argue about texture detail quite a bit. The reason WHY God of War 3 looks good is not because it's zoomed out. It's textures are actually it's best strength when it comes to the game engine. I personally think that bringing up PDZ is weak sauce. First off, the polygon models in that game are very outdated. The lighting is very simple and is largely a post-processing effect. And the many of the same textures are re-used for the environments, thus giving that pseudo high-quality texture mapping you keep talking about....while games like God of War have a variety of them. I mean don't get me wrong, it was a good looking Launch title, but please move on. That game was borderline last gen. It's almost embarrasing that you bring it up, as I can list dozens of X360 exclusives that wipe the floor with PDZ, as they naturally should (the game came out 5 years ago!).

The camera set-up in GOW3 isn't a graphics compromise. It's a gameplay decision. ALL God of War games have a fixed camera. It's a hack and slash game, Ninja Gaiden also uses the same set-up and no one is claiming that it is a graphics compromise.

-Ah! Good point. (@ the textures size). Well I used a bad example but you do get my idea, right? That a bad texture can look good if it's either zoomed out or made to look good from a distance.

-Well we all have our opinions.. I guess "better graphics" is subjective. But still, when I played GOW3 (both times) I picked up on the same stuff. Sometimes you'll get a fairly close camera, (or sometimes for a few seconds in the cutscene), you'll catch a glimse of very bland texture detail. Some even looks like Mass Effect before the textures loaded. I'm surprised you did not notice these flaws.

Look, here's an example (this may be an old picture, it probably is, but whenever you get close up in the game you'll see it looking pretty much the same as that). Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 2n86m210
Link for full version: https://2img.net/h/oi47.tinypic.com/2n86m2e.jpg

See what I mean? It looks smooth but the textures are blurred and lack decent detail. Even the character models look bad, except for Kratos. The way God Of War 3 looks good is the way God Of War Chains Of Olympus on psp looks so good. No other game on psp looks so good. Why? Because the rest of the games aren't as restrictive in so many aspects.

- You may point out flaws of PDZ but there's no denying that it has the best texture detail of any console game so far (unless you can prove otherwise). If only they improved the character models and weapon models a little it would be mind blowing. Honestly.

-You say you can name games that wipe the floor with PDZ, please go ahead. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Graphics Of The Year?   Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 EmptyFri Oct 15, 2010 8:51 pm

I'm sorry, God of War 3 does not look like that. That's horrible. Those screenshots are HEAVILY compressed thus an incredible amount of detail is lost.

PDZ does not have the best texture detail of any console game. Dude, it's average texture is no where near 2048 X 2048 it's hardly the current gen average of 1024 X 1024. And it's largely the same textures re-used over and over on the environments.


Gears of War (1,2,3) , Halo Reach, Forza, Alan Wake, etc are better examples to show case the X360's power.
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PostSubject: Re: Graphics Of The Year?   Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 EmptySat Oct 16, 2010 6:35 am

Alan1994 wrote:
I'm sorry, God of War 3 does not look like that. That's horrible. Those screenshots are HEAVILY compressed thus an incredible amount of detail is lost.

PDZ does not have the best texture detail of any console game. Dude, it's average texture is no where near 2048 X 2048 it's hardly the current gen average of 1024 X 1024. And it's largely the same textures re-used over and over on the environments.


Gears of War (1,2,3) , Halo Reach, Forza, Alan Wake, etc are better examples to show case the X360's power.

I think you're wrong. Otherwise why would Kratos look fine but only the textures look bad? Compression would ruin it all, not just some aspect of it.

I suggest you play pdz again. I think there's a good variety of textures and none of the games you mention have textures as good as it except gears but even that falls short in a few cases. Gears seems to use the same kind of visual techniques as pdz though, and even gears' look better than
gow3s. They look equal from a distance (or maybe gow3 has the upper hand) but up close there's no match. Gears wins but pdz wins even more. Launch title or not, rare knew what they were doing. Also, draw distance of cityscape is amazing, also the foliage is amazing on pdz, less lush than uncharted 2s but better detail overall. That's the thing, pdz Is designed from a fps standpoint! If it were third person or like gow it would not need the same level of detail!
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PostSubject: Re: Graphics Of The Year?   Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 EmptySat Oct 16, 2010 8:51 am

I love how everyone writes a 7 page essay response to each other. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Graphics Of The Year?   Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 EmptySat Oct 16, 2010 11:30 am

ALL of that image is ruined with compression.

There is nothing about this:

http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/643/643884/perfect-dark-zero-20050820024011628_640w.jpg

That looks better than this:

https://2img.net/h/oi44.tinypic.com/66cev8.jpg

OR

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2008/247/938611_20080905_screen001.jpg

You don't understand, that pseudo-high-quality texture effect is caused by multiple things. MANY of the texture maps are reused and relayed over each other to make it seem like the texture quality is a bit higher than it really is. And then the game uses alot of bloom to make the textures shiny and stand out. It's a very outdatted technique that MOST developers grew out of that. Same thing is done in Mass Effect 2 on the ground textures on those rocky environments. Games like Gears of War or God of War use larger texture maps with the only after effect done on them being legitimate HDR lighting. Some of the textures in God of War 3 is 2048 X 2048, even on Kratos. Some of the textures in Gears of War 2 is 2048 X 1024. The largest texture in PDZ is 1024 X 1024 assuming that it followed the average at that time.

Perfect Dark Zero doesn't even use any anti-aliasing and it runs at 640 X 1152 resolution, so I don't know where you got that "anti-aliased textures" from.

FPS's don't require higher texture resolution to look good....that's another inaccurate statement. FPS's like KZ2 have flat textures all over the place yet it still looks quite good. MW2, considered the best looking multiplatform FPS has low texture resolution on everything but the weapon models. In a matter of fact, since most FPS's are frantic and require alot of motion while playing, most developers can get away with using underwhelming texture resolutions. On the other hand, 3rd person perspectives require higher texture resolutions to cope for the fact that your avatar is centered and static on the screen. Grab a sniper in Gears 2 and zoom into a dead locust of a dead human and you can see that Gears 2's texture quality is higher than the FPS standards.
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PostSubject: Re: Graphics Of The Year?   Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 EmptySat Oct 16, 2010 12:45 pm

^
|
|
I don't get understand what you're getting at with those pics... scratch

I can't argue with the technical stuff because I don't understand any of it at all.
But in spite of all you're saying, you cannot deny the fact that the up close texture detail is superior to God Of War's.
Okay, I won't say that PDZ is graphically superior to GOW3 anymore but I'm just stating, PDZ has amazing textures. God Of War has better design from a distance.
And on top of that, the cityscape of PDZ looks stunning but when you zoom in on the buildings using the scope of your gun, they don't look that good. Imagine you could zoom in on god of war locations. They would look pretty bad too. That's the point I am trying to make.

Quote :
, 3rd person perspectives require higher texture resolutions to cope for the fact that your avatar is centered and static on the screen
Well, actually that's where I really have to disagree with you. Because most of Gow3 has you from quite a far distance from the ground.
And it's as I said before, if it weren't for it's scripted nature God Of War would not look as good as it did. That's why generally xbox 360 exclusives don't look as good as ps3 exclusives, because it seems Sony wants their developers to focus on making heavily scripted, linear titles for the ps3 whereas microsoft just want to make fun games with little emphasis on the visuals. So perhaps it is the case that PDZ has inferior graphics on the whole. I'll accept that but there's no denying that there has been no ps3 exclusive with textures that have such stunning detail.

And yeah Gears has amazing textures but that's the thing, God Of War doesn't! Gears and Perfect Dark and several other games make good use of that cool bumpy texture effect and look both decent up close and from a distance too. I've so far not seen any games on ps3 use that. I may be wrong ... but I don't think I have.

Btw, have you got PDZ?
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PostSubject: Re: Graphics Of The Year?   Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 EmptySat Oct 16, 2010 12:53 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Graphics Of The Year?   Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 EmptySat Oct 16, 2010 3:09 pm

Those pics are native screen grabs of PDZ and Gears of War 2. I'm trying to show you that PDZ doesn't has anything on Gears..

If you can't argue technical stuff, then you can't argue about texture quality or graphical compromises. Texture quality isn't an opinion or a simple observation. It is marked by it's texture resolution. In God of War 3, the textures on Kratos are 4 times the resolution of a game like PDZ. PDZ isn't even a game that remotely shows off the X360's technical prowess. Which is why I simply don't understand why you keep going back to it.

You were implying that FPS developers can't get away with putting sloppy texture quality. And I gave you examples showing you that that is not the case. God of War 3's high texture resolution on Kratos IS STILL THERE when the camera zooms out of him. The "cool bumpy texture effect" are textures being overlayed by polygons. Kratos is made of 20,000 polys.

God of War's texture quality is the biggest reason it gets so much praise from people and it's the sole reason why GOW3 is 35 GBs in size. The textures were so big that they had to offload it from the RAM onto the Blu-ray disc in order for it to work.

God of War IS NOT an RPG, it has always been a hack and slash titles. They didn't compromise gameplay over graphics. I myself prefers a game engine that uses it's resources towards benefiting gameplay, but God of War would have been a linear Hack and Slash whether it had good graphics or not.

I owned PDZ 4 years ago and I remember playing it quite clearly. Even 4 years ago I didn't see what was so impressive about it....and hell I even re-downloaded the demo just in case I had been missing something about the graphics.
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PostSubject: Re: Graphics Of The Year?   Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 EmptySat Oct 16, 2010 3:13 pm

Castlevania looks great but the polygon models are pretty average.

Why are you making understatements about resolutions and anti-aliasing? They matter quite a bit. If a game doesn't run 720p, then it has to be scaled which creates unwanted jaggies on an image. If a game doesn't have anti-aliasing that's even worse because then the jaggies are more obvious.

You were saying something about how "PDZ has the best anti-aliased textures" that's why I brought it up. The irony of it is that there is absolutely no anti-aliasing in the game, which questions your creditiblity.
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PostSubject: Re: Graphics Of The Year?   Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 EmptySun Oct 17, 2010 10:48 am

Alan1994 wrote:
Those pics are native screen grabs of PDZ and Gears of War 2. I'm trying to show you that PDZ doesn't has anything on Gears..

If you can't argue technical stuff, then you can't argue about texture quality or graphical compromises. Texture quality isn't an opinion or a simple observation. It is marked by it's texture resolution. In God of War 3, the textures on Kratos are 4 times the resolution of a game like PDZ. PDZ isn't even a game that remotely shows off the X360's technical prowess. Which is why I simply don't understand why you keep going back to it.

You were implying that FPS developers can't get away with putting sloppy texture quality. And I gave you examples showing you that that is not the case. God of War 3's high texture resolution on Kratos IS STILL THERE when the camera zooms out of him. The "cool bumpy texture effect" are textures being overlayed by polygons. Kratos is made of 20,000 polys.

God of War's texture quality is the biggest reason it gets so much praise from people and it's the sole reason why GOW3 is 35 GBs in size. The textures were so big that they had to offload it from the RAM onto the Blu-ray disc in order for it to work.

God of War IS NOT an RPG, it has always been a hack and slash titles. They didn't compromise gameplay over graphics. I myself prefers a game engine that uses it's resources towards benefiting gameplay, but God of War would have been a linear Hack and Slash whether it had good graphics or not.

I owned PDZ 4 years ago and I remember playing it quite clearly. Even 4 years ago I didn't see what was so impressive about it....and hell I even re-downloaded the demo just in case I had been missing something about the graphics.

I actually thought those screens of Gears weren't very good... For one, none of them were up close to the environment, only from a distance and I keep stressing the fact that PDZ exceeds so many games in terms of the textures, not the other aspects though.
So why are you still arguing that Kratos looks better than the character models in PDZ? lol I accepted that right from the start. Hell, even the poorly designed enemies in god of war probably look better than perfect dark zero's.

I can debate this but I don't know anything about the two games statistics or whatever. I'm just basing this entirely off what I've seen when playing the two games.

You keeeep mentioning Kratos. Honestly I don't care how Kratos looks. It's like Killzone where they put all the effort into making the weapons and characters look good and then it's got flat, not particularly nice-looking textures.
Any developer can make one part of the game look insanely good and then make the rest look crap. Razz

The size of God Of War could be because of the variety of environmental pieces. Of course, I'm sure it's got a diverse range of locations and things within. But the size by no means represents the quality of the texture detail. Laughing It could also be so large because of the uncompressed HQ cutscenes and stuff like that. Hell, I read somewhere that a lot of developers duplicate the data on a blu-ray disk numerous times over so that it can run faster because ps3 usually runs it quite slowly.
I mean, FF on 360 had compressed data and stuff and it still came up to 3 disks. Which is well over 20GB worth. Yet it didn't really have amazing graphics...

Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 FFXIII


lol you're saying god of war would have been a hack n slash whether it had good graphics or not. Well you've just switched the debate slightly. My point is that it would not have had the graphics it has without the limitations of this gameplay style.
I'm sure quite a few games have equal graphics to God Of War 3, the developers just don't resort to those restrictions generally...

Shame you don't have PDZ. I would direct you to which levels to check out, and what bits to look at.

Alan1994 wrote:
Castlevania looks great but the polygon models are pretty average.

Why are you making understatements about resolutions and anti-aliasing? They matter quite a bit. If a game doesn't run 720p, then it has to be scaled which creates unwanted jaggies on an image. If a game doesn't have anti-aliasing that's even worse because then the jaggies are more obvious.

You were saying something about how "PDZ has the best anti-aliased textures" that's why I brought it up. The irony of it is that there is absolutely no anti-aliasing in the game, which questions your creditiblity.

Polygon models are average? I beg to differ. Unlike GOW3 it doesn't have the one single good looking model and a load of mediocre ones. It has a fairly good looking main character model and lots of pretty good looking enemy models. Go back to my earlier post in which I mention that it seems the enemies in GOW3 (not the gods or big enemies), have block hands. They don't seem to (it's hard to tell but from that skeleton picture it seems to be the case) in Castlevania lord of shadow.

And did I say anti-aliased textures? Please check again I don't believe I did....
Really....

Well these are just my opinions I guess....
And I can't be bothered to debate this anymore because it's not as fun because you're not an insecure ps3 fanboy Sad

Btw I'm not trying to have the last word, feel free to respond, I'll read what you say but I wont debate any further.

And I owe your respect for, unlike BBC, actually continuing the debate for this long. Jamin just gives up after like the first post. lol
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PostSubject: Re: Graphics Of The Year?   Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 EmptySun Oct 17, 2010 11:26 am

Demon Wolf, I've already proven to you with hard numbers that GOW3's texture quality is significantly higher than PDZ. That's not an opinion. Texture quality is dictated by it's texture resolution and it's variety of texture maps.

You said that PDZ has a cool texture bumpy-effect. I'm saying that those are merely textures being overlayed by geometric polygons.

Textures are on character models AND environments. God of War 3 has good texture quality on other things too, not just Kratos. But you brought him up in that screenshot saying that farther away he doesn't look as good.

None of PDZ looks good to today's standards, not even the textures which you keep argueing about....It's texture quality is barely average and it's just being reused and and overlayed to make it look shinny. It's insulting that you think a launch title looks better than titles like Gears of War and God of War.

Don't argue with me about Blu-ray and data duplication. Razz I know ALLLLL about that. I even made threads about it too. Since the PS3 has slightly less RAM than the X360, some developers stream textures off the Blu-ray disc. God of War 3's needed a dual-layered Blu-ray disc mainly because of the large amounts of textures stored on the Blu-ray. FFXIII ate up alot of space not because of texture quality, but because of all the pre-rendered video on the disc (approximately 33 GBs were used for the cutscenes).

God of War 3 wouldn't look better as a large scale RPG, ofcourse. If it was an open-world game everything would need to be rendered. You are saying that God of War 3 is linear BECAUSE of the fact that they are trying to make the game look pretty when God of War has always been a linear hack and slash title.

From a purely visual standpoint, NO console game matches GOW3. Despite the "restrictions". You are trying to argue otherwise by saying the texture quality isn't as great when close up, which is also wrong considering the fact that the close up 100% ingame cutscenes prove otherwise.

http://www.destructoid.com/god-of-war-iii-eats-up-35-gigs-on-a-blu-ray-disc-164577.phtml

"But let's face it, so far there's been no game that has anti-aliasing like that mixed with texture detail like perfect dark zero's, mixed with a fully movable, close-up camera, mixed with hundreds of environmental models and moving pieces, running at over 30fps. "

Anyone that has differing opinions shouldn't be called an insecure fanboy. I mean personally I think the accusations that you made are absolutely rediculous, but I still gave you the benefit of the doubt to present your point of view. Maybe you just like the art style of PDZ, since the game does rather look shiny, but it's not this technical beast that you think it is.
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PostSubject: Re: Graphics Of The Year?   Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 EmptySun Oct 17, 2010 1:25 pm


Okay, one last response. I'm not arguing though...
Alan1994 wrote:
Demon Wolf, I've already proven to you with hard numbers that GOW3's texture quality is significantly higher than PDZ. That's not an opinion. Texture quality is dictated by it's texture resolution and it's variety of texture maps.
Okay. I never said it was your opinion.

You said that PDZ has a cool texture bumpy-effect. I'm saying that those are merely textures being overlayed by geometric polygons.
That may be. Still looks awesome though.
Textures are on character models AND environments. God of War 3 has good texture quality on other things too, not just Kratos. But you brought him up in that screenshot saying that farther away he doesn't look as good.
Nope. I never said that. I said Kratos is the only thing that looks good. Razz But nevermind that now.

None of PDZ looks good to today's standards, not even the textures which you keep argueing about....It's texture quality is barely average and it's just being reused and and overlayed to make it look shinny. It's insulting that you think a launch title looks better than titles like Gears of War and God of War.
I'm not just talking about Shininess. I'm talking about the way you can crouch AND zoom in and it still looks really high quality.

Don't argue with me about Blu-ray and data duplication. Razz I know ALLLLL about that. I even made threads about it too. Since the PS3 has slightly less RAM than the X360, some developers stream textures off the Blu-ray disc. God of War 3's needed a dual-layered Blu-ray disc mainly because of the large amounts of textures stored on the Blu-ray. FFXIII ate up alot of space not because of texture quality, but because of all the pre-rendered video on the disc (approximately 33 GBs were used for the cutscenes).

lol alright then. But aren't you kind of contradicting yourself there? I'm saying a lot of GOW's data could have been the cutscenes, and you even said yourself that FF had 33gb for cutscenes. Same could be with GOW.

God of War 3 wouldn't look better as a large scale RPG, ofcourse. If it was an open-world game everything would need to be rendered. You are saying that God of War 3 is linear BECAUSE of the fact that they are trying to make the game look pretty when God of War has always been a linear hack and slash title.

No. I never claimed that. I'm saying just as you said, it wouldn't look as good if it were open world. Exactly. Razz The fact that god of war is linear in nature meant the developers could give it better graphics. But my initial argument was actually that the graphics weren't the best. Nvm that though... you seem to have proved me wrong...


From a purely visual standpoint, NO console game matches GOW3. Despite the "restrictions". You are trying to argue otherwise by saying the texture quality isn't as great when close up, which is also wrong considering the fact that the close up 100% ingame cutscenes prove otherwise.

http://www.destructoid.com/god-of-war-iii-eats-up-35-gigs-on-a-blu-ray-disc-164577.

Aha! No argument there. But tell me, are the cutscenes close-ups of Kratos or the environment? In one of the cutscenes I saw, it wasn't even that close up but the plant Kratos was standing near was extremely jaggy.

"But let's face it, so far there's been no game that has anti-aliasing like that mixed with texture detail like perfect dark zero's, mixed with a fully movable, close-up camera, mixed with hundreds of environmental models and moving pieces, running at over 30fps. "

lol I meant no game has anti-aliasing like god of war's mixed with perfect dark's texture detail. Sorry I didn't explain myself well enough. Razz The fact is that, despite what you may say, the "simple" graphics Perfect Dark Zero has looks good up-close. Or even Gears of War for that matter! Texture detail like Gears or Perfect Dark has not been matched with open-world gameplay, first person view, anti-aliasing like GOW3's and with loads of character models on the screen at once. Each game only crosses off 1 or 2 of those.

Anyone that has differing opinions shouldn't be called an insecure fanboy. I mean personally I think the accusations that you made are absolutely rediculous, but I still gave you the benefit of the doubt to present your point of view. Maybe you just like the art style of PDZ, since the game does rather look shiny, but it's not this technical beast that you think it is.

Maybe I was wrong all along. I just thought about using PDZ in this argument because it uses, what I believe are similar techniques that Gears Of War uses for it's textures except there are not really any bits in the game that look ugly, unlike Gears has some bad looking parts. Also it's in first person, therefore you can zoom in closer with PDZ and see the wonderful texture. Smile But just hear me out and give me an honest answer. What games other than Gears, have textures that look as good as Perfect Dark Zeros when zoomed in up-close? I don't mean technically. I don't mean in terms of polygons, but what has the best appearance (eg: least blurry).
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PostSubject: Re: Graphics Of The Year?   Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 EmptySun Oct 17, 2010 2:23 pm

-You are implying that texture quality is an opinion based subject.

-GOW3's cutscenes are ingame, like Reach. FFXIII's cutscenes are pre-rendered; pre-rendered video eats up alot of storage space. Hence why you don't see HD movies on DVDs.

-In some cutscenes Kratos takes up half the screen. You can clearly see the amount of detail "up-close" on him. The God's he fight are also extremely large and are practically part of the environment. When you zoom into the floor in PDZ, it's the same redone textures adjacent to each other. It makes it look like it's one huge high-quality texture. Sometimes this is done to save RAM budget.

- God of War 3 has the best texture quality so far, and it uses great anti-aliasing.

- Textures....ARE a technical subject. It's defined by it's texture resolution. If you "think" PDZ has better texture quality then that means that you prefer the art style or the look of the textures.
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PostSubject: Re: Graphics Of The Year?   Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 EmptySun Oct 17, 2010 2:43 pm

Just shut up guys lol.No one cares "ab0ut teh graphixs!!!"
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PostSubject: Re: Graphics Of The Year?   Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 EmptySun Oct 17, 2010 3:23 pm

Alan1994 wrote:
-You are implying that texture quality is an opinion based subject.

It is. Razz Well...kind of. Graphics in general is. Plus, even if you look at all the technical stuff you may say that one game is more system pushing than the other but at the end of the day it's not necessarily true because the two systems run differently. Neutral


-GOW3's cutscenes are ingame, like Reach. FFXIII's cutscenes are pre-rendered; pre-rendered video eats up alot of storage space. Hence why you don't see HD movies on DVDs.

Aha! I see. Wink

-In some cutscenes Kratos takes up half the screen. You can clearly see the amount of detail "up-close" on him. The God's he fight are also extremely large and are practically part of the environment. When you zoom into the floor in PDZ, it's the same redone textures adjacent to each other. It makes it look like it's one huge high-quality texture. Sometimes this is done to save RAM budget.

Him. Smile
And yeah the gods, I'll give you that though even Ninety Nine Nights 2, crap as it is, had some well designed big bad guys too. (to my recollection at least... I saw it in a trailer)
Redone textures? That may be.... but it's not as if the textures take up massive areas. I mean, in real life if you look at a brick wall there aren't exactly going to be bricks of different shapes Razz
Anyway, we're discussing quality ... not quantity. (im starting to feel like Lanced Jack - the troll. I was about to write "Baka". )


- God of War 3 has the best texture quality so far, and it uses great anti-aliasing.

Shocked
Right.


- Textures....ARE a technical subject. It's defined by it's texture resolution. If you "think" PDZ has better texture quality then that means that you prefer the art style or the look of the textures.

Okay, you've lost me.
I'm going to have to do something.
God Of War Chains Of Olympus is widely considered to have the best graphics on psp.
Take a look at this screenshot. Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 0802_impp_14_z+god_of_war_chains_of_olympus+screen_shots
See? The game looks beautiful.
But look at the ground. The nearest bit to the camera. Flat, blurry, ugly. Same goes in this screen:
Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 S32048_psp_117

The graphics are decieving. Those locations God Of War is set in don't look as nice from a different perspective.
I found Toy Story 3, a movie-tie in, to have much better textures than GOW3. Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 2w5v8fr Hell, even Medal Of Honor Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 Medal-of-honor-heroes-20061023071944834

Do you get my point? Just because GOW3 looks like it has the best visuals, it's not got the best texture detail. And now this argument has got ridiculously shallow. You're arguing that GOW3 has more polygons, and I'm arguing that it's not as pretty as other textures. This is lame!

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PostSubject: Re: Graphics Of The Year?   Graphics Of The Year? - Page 4 EmptySun Oct 17, 2010 4:52 pm

I'm argueing that GOW3 has better texture quality. I've stated some GOW3's texture resolution. I mentioned polygons ONCE to explain to you why there are texture-bump effects.

GOW CoO is a different arguement. That game DOESN'T have decent texture quality. GOW3 does.

It's lighting and polygon models are great, though the best thing about GOW3 IS it's texture quality.

http://www.couchcampus.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/5.jpg

That's a legit non-compressed screengrab of God of War 3. AND close up to so you can see the detail.
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